Where do you see yourself at the end?

[treeman82]

I am just wondering. We all talk about how we want to get bigger and bigger and bigger. At what point for you is big enough for you? Accounts wise / $$$ wise / employee wise / etc.

I used to think that I wanted to have an empire. Now I don't think the same way. I would like to be able to afford some nice things in life. Nicer house, cars, kids, family... But I think that employee wise I would be happy at about 20 - 30, money wise, once I am financially secure that is all I really need and will just look to maintain what I have. I am not sure if this goes against what you guys all believe. I just think though that once you have gotten to where you need to be in life that you shouldn't have to build anymore, cause it just means more headaches.

[Flex-Deck]

As far as I am concerned you are right on the "money":)

[Evan528]

Im not looking to get rich nor do I expect it. I just would like to keep my business at managable size and make enogh money to live comfotably...that all!

[HOMER]

20 to 30 employees?

Good luck, keep thinkin big.

Think small............be small
Think big...........????????.............see what happens!

I just want to win the lottery or find a briefcase full of cash.

[65hoss]

20 to 30 headaches?? No thanks. More profitable for smaller companies. I prefer to try to make mine grow from a profitability standpoint. I'm trying to learn to check my ego at the door. I like saying I have xxx employees. But everytime I do that I know I'm eating into my profit.

[Guido]

and get back out there to start my biz back up, I'll be 38. I don't plan on getting too large, but I would like a good size company that I can work myself out of a little at a time. I want to be able to enjoy my years and still get a comfortable income. I don't need much since my wife and I will already be recieving a pretty decent pension from the Air Force, but I would like to build something I can keep in the family when I pass (or hopefully before then)

We'll see I guess. It's a long time away, but I still tinker with a "dream" business plan, etc, etc. I should have it pretty well planned out after 20 years of industry research, and my experience working for the gov't will show me all of what I don't want to do!

[Chuck Sinclair]

Originally posted by Guido
and get back out there to start my biz back up, I'll be 38. I don't plan on getting too large, but I would like a good size company that I can work myself out of a little at a time. I want to be able to enjoy my years and still get a comfortable income. I don't need much since my wife and I will already be recieving a pretty decent pension from the Air Force, but I would like to build something I can keep in the family when I pass (or hopefully before then)

We'll see I guess. It's a long time away, but I still tinker with a "dream" business plan, etc, etc. I should have it pretty well planned out after 20 years of industry research, and my experience working for the gov't will show me all of what I don't want to do!

Hey Guido
Landscapers don't PASS they just do it in the dirt!

[Fine Lines Lawn]

Chuck,
Have I mentioned that you have a beautiful logo?

[treeman82]

Originally posted by 65hoss
20 to 30 headaches?? No thanks. More profitable for smaller companies. I prefer to try to make mine grow from a profitability standpoint. I'm trying to learn to check my ego at the door. I like saying I have xxx employees. But everytime I do that I know I'm eating into my profit.

I like that number because while it is headaches, it also means that I don't have to do any work any more. Meaning I don't have to go out and bust my butt. I like dealing with customers, and doing the whole BS thing. I feel that at that number, or somewhere about there it would give me plenty of income, let me handle many projects, and also give my back a nice long break. Granted the more people you have the more headaches, it's just about how you handle those headaches is all. I mean look at it like this, I could be a solo opp, and have 50 PITA customers. Now that is at least 50 headaches there. Now if I have 25 guys lets say, and I have chosen them well. Also my customer list is one that I like, I couldn't see the problems really ammounting to all that much. I mean how does JAA do it? Office staff I'm sure. So what, I gotta have my wife come in and do book work. Or maybe I have to hire a secratary. Granted this is all just where I would like to be... but at this time being 19, I think I have got a good start.

[Chuck Sinclair]

Originally posted by Fine Lines Lawn
Chuck,
Have I mentioned that you have a beautiful logo?


Thank You, i just had the whole Identity thing done by a designer well worth the money.

[TurfKingLawn]

I'd like to stay solo for a while, and then when I get older, have a couple crews and sit around all day doing nothing. :)

Hank

[AltaLawnCare]

I want to go full time. And stay solo! ;)

[Mowingman]

I am doing good with myself and 2 or 3 seasonal helpers. I am making a good living and don't have to worry about a second crew out tearing up my equip. or messing up mowing jobs. I might put another crew out if I ever find someone I can trust to treat the equip. and the customers the way I do. I am 51, and I just don't want a high pressure, big time operation. I enjoy what I do a lot, getting too big will just mess it up.:)

[GreenQuest Lawn]

I am undecieded.

I like being by myself but I may add a full time guy this year or next year if I can find the right one.

I worked for a 30 employee place and although I envey him and see all the money he makes and the extremly HUGE house he is building, I dont know if its right for me.


Being this is only my second year in business for myself, I am really happy.

Give me another 5 years and we will see.

[CLARKE]

The bigger you become the more over head you have,
the bigger the HEADACHE.
I ALWAYS SAID DON'T BIT OFF MORE THAN YOU CAN CHEW

[SJR Lawncare]

I like just being solo. I get too stressed out worring about what the other guys are doing or if they are doing a good job when I have help on larger jobs, or when I get behind.

[MOW ED]

I still really don't know.

I am like the 18 year old kid that just graduated high school.

What do I do now?

I love lawn care and have been solo for 6 years and now my wife is helping and the next few years I plan on strategically growing. I really can't imagine a business where I don't get out and work on the lawns myself. I am not a paper pusher and thats not a slam on anyone but I REALLY like working.

I have the luxury of being able to take my time and see how things go.

It is a good idea to have long term goals but sometimes ya just get caught in the everyday grind and don't give much thought to that. Good thread, now I got some thinking to do..

[Lawn Wizard]

Well my businees plan is almost done I just need to type it out. I plan in the next 5 years to take on 2 employees and have sales in the $100,000 range. for next year Im going to remain solo and hire help as needed. next year is all about tightening up my presentation and maximizing each customer. Once I hire 2 full time employees I will do all the smoozing while they do all the labor.

[MIDSOUTH]

Originally posted by 65hoss
20 to 30 headaches?? No thanks. More profitable for smaller companies. I prefer to try to make mine grow from a profitability standpoint. I'm trying to learn to check my ego at the door. I like saying I have xxx employees. But everytime I do that I know I'm eating into my profit.

I guess just work till you can't no more, huh? The part of the employees is to not have to work so much yourself and eventually have a strong company that runs itself.

[Big Nate]

6 Feet Under!!:rolleyes: :D :p



gotcha matt, 20 employees are 5 too many

[cpmayhewinc]

I started out small with the idea that I want to stay small, however, I think that I will grow somewhat and eventually get to the point where I can get away from the day to day but not to far as to loose touch.

[LawnKeepers]

I'm company will never stop growing. Maybe in terms of accounts, employees, gross income and such, but I live to "streamline" my business. I want it to operate as effecient as possible.

[AndysLawns]

In ten years i would like to see myself with 50 or 60 accounts (lawn care). and about 3 or 4 employees. I would also like to be heavy in the landscaping buissness too. I still got college in front of me too.

[Mowman]

With the equipment I have I figure I can cut 10+ a day. That's 50+ a week. With the right clients I feel I can live pretty GOOD. Have heard too many stories about workers SCREWING things up and costing accounts. I'm like MOW ED I'd rather be out there in the lawns doing the work myself. I'm not one to sit still. JMHO.

Mowman

[JJ Lawn]

Just like the older guys......

I want to keep my business solo and keep on working as long as I can.

I started doing this 6 yrs ago after being laid off from the Phone company after 17 years.

I now make more money than I did working for phone company, have more weekends off, less overtime, and don't have anyone telling me what to do.

Jim

[JAA]

If you think you can,
or,
If you think you can't.......

You're right.

[SprinklerGuy]

Boy I hate to be the "bad news" part of the saying "good news, bad news" BUT......

For those of you that want to work solo until you can work no more? What about when you can work no more? What then, retire with nothing? Do you want to get a job then? And make 1/2 of what you are used to? Do you plan to sell? Sell what? Blue sky? Good will? A customer list? think about that, unless you are investing a bunch of that money you are making, you will be in trouble come 55 or 60 years old. Just a thought!

And to the guy who wants to have 2 full time employees and do about 100k per year? Better re-think that business plan, 100k aint enough. I hope you are just guessing at that number cuz if you start subtracting their salaries and your taxes you don't have much left.

Just my thoughts, they are based on my own experience and are to be taken as helpful, not bashes. This is a good thread, keep em coming.

[AustinJ]

This is one of the dilemmas I'll be facing down the road a bit. I'm still just getting started, but of course, I'm looking forward to where I want to be. On the one hand, I love working solo. I'm in control, the level of quality of the work is always up to my standard, I know my equipment is in good hands, etc etc. I don't have to pay a ton of money for an employees salary and taxes and so forth, which leaves more of a profit margin for me, and I don't have to worry about always keeping that employee busy. Yet, by staying solo, it limits how much the business can grow. I'd like to eventually get a second crew going and expand the business, but that means no more solo work. The other benefit of hiring people, as mentioned above, is that if I get sick or injured, my business doesnt have to suffer along with me. I guess it's all about hiring good employees and keeping them. Yeah. That's all. No big deal. :rolleyes: :D

[awm]

this may sound crazy. both parents had alshiemers,
at the end i hope im working and just kick off one day when my time comes. in other wd i hope not to do the alshiemer or other longterm illness thing,and just be able to be working when i die.
a lot to ask i guess huh. for me its not about money although i know i have to make ends meet. later now

[GreenQuest Lawn]

If you young guys start investing now you can retire with a good nest egg.

If I only knew then what i know now.

[FOX-PROPERTY]

Since this was my first season in the lawncare industry, my outlook on the future has changed a lot!
I thought that the ?ONE MAN OPERATION? would be suffice. Now from the amount of work that I know that I can generate, there is NO WAY I can do it all on my own. In order to build a ?NEST-EGG? to retire on, you must first create the ?BIRD? to lay the golden egg. If I was a SOLO for the next 20 years, have a customer base of say 50 clients and generate a gross income of $120k by yourself, just think how much more can be made just by adding a few employees! Sure adding on additional help cost $$$ but as they say.?IT TAKES MONEY TO MAKE MONEY?.
As a few other members posted, what do you really have to SELL when you are ready to retire from this business if you are a SOLO? Maybe you love this business so much you DON?T want to retire from it, who is going to be conducting the physical end of this business when you no longer can? I have a wife, and two small children (5 and 7); I want to leave them something that I created for them. I don?t want to leave them with a few mowers and whatever remaining customers I will have at that time because I was to frugal and didn?t want to expand 20 years earlier. If you were looking to buy a business in this industry, what would you look for? I personally would not even consider buying Mr. OLD Man?s lawn mowing business that he ran on his own for the past 40 years?why? As Mr. OLDMAN got older, he dropped customers because he couldn?t keep up do to his age. Now he?s had it and all your going to get is 2 old mowers and 10 customers? Not much for Mr. OLDMAN to retire on. So now you go and look at Mr. Wiseman?s business. He has also been running this business for the past 40 years, but his is different?. His business has 15 employees grosses $800K a year, has 100+ contracted customers, top of the line equipment, trucks, and a manager who knows this business inside and out. Now, if you wanted to retire--who would you want to be?

[SprinklerGuy]

foxx, your numbers are WAY OFF but your point is avery valid one.

Please, it is very dangerous to think that by adding a couple of employees your salary/take home is going to go up. It probably will go down first before it goes up.

Talk to us man.......some of us have been where you are and can help....the numbers do not lie!!

[FOX-PROPERTY]

Thanks Tony...I was just picking numbers out of the air, just to get the general point across. I know my #'s are not even close to reality,but I have A lOT to learn and I will listen to you and all who are willing to help me. Thanks again!

[tranum]

at the end.....
i have 2 children, a son-in-law (for now), and a grandchild. at the end i would like to have my business where it will support me without me doing ALL the work. i don't care if that translates to one employee or a dozen as long as it supports me and gives me time with my family. at 48 years old i'm working on my 2nd million $ (gave up on the 1st) and money is not quite as important as it used to be. i can't take it with me, but i want enough to get there on. i enjoy what i do, and as long as i am physically able, i will keep doing it. when i can't do it, i hope i have a business that will continue to provide income, and a family member that wants to take it & run.
the end....

[treeman82]

Tom, I have at least one exception to your idea. I met a guy over the summer while doing tree work. The guy is I would say either in his late 60's or early 70's. He seems to be in great shape. The guy only has him and one other guy. They cut together with 2 older walk behinds about 50 houses a week. If he were to ever put that business up for sale I would try my best to snatch it up in as fast as I could. The guy has the 50 houses all lined up, boom boom boom... The cheapest of those houses has got to be worth about a million dollars. The most expensive has got to be somewhere between, and possibly upwards of 5 - 10 million dollars. Good business to buy, don't ya think? :o

[FOX-PROPERTY]

Matt, in that case if I were you (thank GOD I'm NOT-lol) I'd start becoming GOOD friends with him. Tell him your looking into buying an established business and see what he would want for it! Seems like the ideal set-up with some newer equipment. If he's as old as you think, retirement may be on his mind.

[treeman82]

Tom, this guy and I actually have some similar associates. This guy has known the father of my dealer now for quite some time. I have known the father now for a few years and have been adopted by the family. The guy who's house I was doing tree work at is a good guy and we get along pretty good. I have lots of respect for him. He is my "landlord" for my shop. I am doing lots of stuff for him and I believe he is gaining a lot of respect for me. He referrs to his lawn guy as "my pissan." I wish to appologize to all of you Italian guys for butchering your language. But yeah, this guy's name is Joe, and I think he likes me already. Seems like a really nice guy too. We had been there one day like I said, cutting down trees and there was a whole big mess. The guy came over with his lawn mower and was really nice about waiting. He took my cards and said he would recommend me for any tree work he comes across. Let me put it to you like this... He cut this lawn which was somewhere around an acre, then they went over to this place next door which by all intents and purposes is a mansion and cut all 5.5 acres of grass there. The mansion is really nice, open area, plenty of landscape plants too as well as trees. These 2 guys went there and cut these 2 places with a 48 or 52 inch exmark belt drive walk behind, and a 52 inch scag walk behind. This will get you guys too... Joe walked while his employee rode a velke. :eek:

[SprinklerGuy]

On the other hand, that story about joe makes me feel stupid!!! All the talk about saving, and retirement that I have been pushing......wouldn't it be nice to do what you love and be able to do it until you die? Making a living while you go?

Makes me sad to think of myself always in a hurry, worrying about time etc. This guy Joe just takes his time and is patient waiting for the "darn tree guy" to get his trash out of the way. What a great way to live your life. I would have been in a hurry pissing and moaning about the tree guy and it would have ruined my day. Maybe I am looking at things wrong.

[awm]

treeman 82. idont know how old erick looks but sounded like u described my impression of his buisiness.no offence to anyone,
just sounded like it fit
exception being the walk behinds

[cclllc]

I too am undecided as to how far I want to go.I am working fulltime now trying to build up a retitiremrnt with a 401k plan.I'm 42 but not sure how long I can keep doing 2 jobs.It's getting harder each year.

[Lakeside Lawn]

I'm looking ahead several years, I work full time, same as cclllc posted above, but my daughter is a freshman in high school now, and in 3 years it college, the problem with that is she wants to be a doctor! Can you imagine what that will cost in 3 years? I'm saving for college now, but working part time with 10-12 customers will help alot. It might even pay for her books!